Amos 8:11

JEREMIAH PROJECT

BIBLE PROPHECY

CULTURE WAR

NEW WORLD ORDER

TRASHING AMERICA

DECEPTIONS

What people are saying about the Jeremiah Project and the article about the Teamsters vs. UPS.

UPS vs Teamsters: A look at greed and discontentment in the workforce.

It's amazing to me that most of the people who write actually make my point of the discontentment of UPS workers, and most refer back to the Teamsters union as the source of that discontentment. Listening to many of those who wrote, they sound like they hate their jobs, hate the company they work for, and hate the wages they earn. If they hate it so much, why don't they take responsibility for their lives and quit... get a job they don't hate so much?

Joe wrote, saying: "Although you have many of the facts right in your assertions, your basic premise is wrong. The more syndrome as you alude to doesn't hold much water. It costs more every year for a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk, yet the farmers aren't making any more per pound for wheat or corn than in the 1940's, the price of milk to a farmer is very little more right now than in the 1950's. Have you check to see what a hog farmer is getting for a weaner pig lately. Not everything is as it seems. You have managed to glean a few verses from the bible to use in your arguments, as a christian I applaude your efforts, but you fall short in your agenda.

The premise of organized labor, is not as you attest more is better, it is to provide quality workers for an employer, who will put in a good days work for a fair days pay. In a time when stock owners are reaping millions for paper, Bill Gates is so rich he could relieve the national debts of most of the world, you would begrudge a worker a full time job, with full time benifits. That is beyond comprehension. Based on your arguments I would judge that you are probably a member of UPS managment.

If not you have had your head buried in the sand for to many years. The reality is, people deserve to also reap the benifits of a great company such as UPS. After all who picks up and delivers the packages? The employee's don't want to put the company out of business, they just want to earn a decent living, and to have the respect of the company and the country.

Your half baked ideas of what the teamsters union and the pension funds are about are certainly way off the mark. For example you make the stretch that General President Ron Carey raided the pension fund to help the democratic campaign. That has been proven to not be the case, ERISA laws passed many years ago, have made the raiding of pension funds totally impossible. The fund that he raided was the general fund, and he will pay the price for that indiscretion. The teamsters union signed a consent decree in the 1980's allowing the federal government Carte Blance to oversee their everyday workings. Hmmm what does that mean? The federal government controls the teamsters union for the most part, and has worked diligently for many years to root out people such as Ron Carey from the union.

I would believe you should do a bit more homework on the subject before you put such trash as you have on the internet. "

"And why don't farmers make more for their wheat and milk? While I don't have any actual figures, I'm sure they make more 'dollars' for their product, while the spending power of those dollars is about the same, if not less, than the 1940's. It is the MORE SYNDROME you see. As they demand more money for their product, so does everyone else along the chain... resulting in the farmer not really gaining anything and only those at the end of the chain (corporations and government) making any real profits. UPS could pay it's drivers a million dollars a year to deliver packages and hire every breathing person into full-time positions, and guess what? They won't have any more spending power at the end of the day! Why? Because everyone else will raise their prices correspondingly to pay the overhead of their packages costing them $1,000's to deliver. And, who wins? The government gets to collect more in taxes to pay for more socialist programs. The corporations maintain their 'profit margin' (% of revenue less costs) and make more dollars because now we're talking bigger numbers. And yes, even labor unions like the Teamsters benefit because they get to skim an even greater amount through union dues, etc., not to mention increased political clout to manipulate other events -- all at the expense of the discontented (and deluded) union worker.

As for reaping the benefits of a great company, earning a decent living, and having the respect of the company and the country.... UPS workers are already reaping more in the way of salaries and benefits than many equally deserving workers in America. And for those who planned ahead a little rather than whining, made a nice little profit this past year with the Initial Public Offering of U.P.S. Respect is earned, not negotiated. Those who take some responsibility for their lives and work at improving their lot in life are more deserving of respect than those who whine and complain about a situation many people would love to have." - ed.

PFrey wrote, saying: "I find your analysis of the UPS strike to be laughable. I have a hard time believing you would expect any person with even minimal intelligence to believe this garbage. You throw in a few quotes from the bible and somehow expect the reader to believe God is on your side. Your unidentified author obviously has no first hand experience with either the Teamsters or working for UPS, yet has the arrogance to editorialize on the matter. Your statement that "I am sure there are many deserving..." is merely one example of the impressive depth of ignorance from which you speak.

I am a Teamster business agent working for a large local union in the Northwest. Previous to accepting my position with the union, I worked for over twenty years at UPS. I now represent our members who work for the company, and I find your article to be offensive, and an insult to our hard working members who have made the company the profitable giant it is today. I believe it is especially insulting to our UPS members of the Christian faith.

Obviously, your organization subscribes to the "Big Lie" theory: if you tell the same lie boldly and repeatedly, people will begin to believe it is true, no matter how outrageous it is. Maybe it will play somewhere, but not with the members that I know at UPS. And I know more than a few."

Crazy4JCM wrote, saying: "I am a part time ups employee at the Richmond va. center. I like many others work 2 jobs back to back because I work the preload. I also like many others are hopeful that more full time postions will open up. They tell us it could be 8-9 years before you have a chance to drive which is insane. The work that I do as a part-timer will most definatly be the hardest work that I will ever do. Why should the ones that bust their butt EVERY DAY still have to wait longer to be a driver just because the person that comes in late if they come in at all has more senority than me? What I'm trying to say is that things should be done by how good of a worker you are rather than how long you have been there. I too joined the teamsters hoping for some change in the right direction. It is ridiculous for a company this large to have as many problems as they do. I love ups though and came to work here when I was only 18 yrs. and 1 month old so that I could get a head start on a great career that U can't wait to do. "

To which, I responded: "I agree with what you said, "things should be done by how good of a worker you are rather than how long you have been there." That doesn't sound like a union slogan. In fact, it is the unions that discourage rewards based on merit such as being a good worker or having a better work ethic. Unions rather believe in "leveling the playing field" and making everyone equal in terms of the quality of their work and rather reward them based on seniority. If it's real improvement or change in the right direction you're looking for - rewards for good work, etc., - you are looking in the wrong place if you're looking to the Teamsters. The Teamsters idea of an ideal work place would be more like you might find in the old Soviet Russia or China. " - ed.

SJ wrote, saying: " I am a ups driver and a union member. Walk a mile in my shoes before you preach to me."

"If it quacks like a duck, you don't have to be a duck to know it's a duck!" - ed.

SayUwill99 wrote, saying: "You should walk in the shoes of a UPS employee before you open your mouth and start flinging biblical verses! Obviously you don't know what you are taliing about!"

"Some of these folks are beginning to sound like a broken record. I wonder who they learn their scripted responses from." - ed.

Thomas wrote, saying: "You have certainly told one side of the story. You are correct about the greed factor. But, you only told it from the teamsters side. Look at the corporate side. Before the strike UPS showed profits of $1.2 billion a year. Now that figure has jumped to almost $2 billion a year.

I work for big business UPS. You should find out some of the horror stories about how their hourly employees are treated just so the company can save the almighty buck.

I will never say I am under paid. But, I am not always treated like a human being. "

Mary wrote, saying: "UPS treats their employee's like crap...You must not have worked there or at least not as a driver. The Union has their own self interest, but, with a company like UPS, thank God for the Union. "

BL wrote, saying: "I think your article has some valid points, but is missing one important thing; "Corporate greed"! Your article is very one sided. How does my 60,000 per year compare to UPS's billion per year in profits? Don't you think that the employee's should share in the success of the company thier breaking thier backs for? In my opinion, I think we are underpaid.

As far as the union goes; Jim Casey, our founding father of this company invited the teamster union into this company because he wanted his employees to be treated fairly. And for the most part, it works. It's not perfect, but show something in this society (other than God) that is. Your holier than thou attitude has alot to be desired. I think you are part of the corporate culture at UPS and hiding behind the bible to further you own personal agenda. I have nothing against God or religion. My question is "What does any of that have to do with UPS and it's employees or the contract with the company?"

Upsman wrote, saying: "Its clearly obvious you have no clue. Ups does have a good benefit package and salary, but we have to work our asses off for that. Ive been with the company for 11 years and it took me 9 to get a full time job when there was clearly enough work for one in half that time. Ups breaks more labor laws then any company in the US. Most days and I mean most we are required to work straight through our lunch and breaks enable to get home at a decent hour. Ups can not be trusted they lie and fail to keep up there side of everything always. If we had no union ups would screw us 10 times more than they allready are. The routes we drive have not been time studied in so long, that they are so overloaded the average person including you would be amazed."

Panama wrote, saying: "I work for u p s and let me tell you i might make $50 thousand a year with a hell of allot of overtime , i like to meet the guy who makes 70 thousand a year he must live at u p s . and that overtime is forced down our throats. we are treated like garbage no one likes to be treated like garbage ."

"Why would you continue to work for a company that treats you like garbage or not like a human being? Could it be the money?" - ed.

SONOR10 wrote, saying: "WRONG try working for BIG BROWN I spent 22 plus years there. UPS is the DEVIL. "

"And I'll bet you don't have a problem depositing your pension checks signed by the devil." - ed.

Casvol wrote, saying: "If you have ever worked inside a hub at U.P.S. (under paid slaves) you would know that $8.00 an hour is not even close to being worth the work we perform. I have had 2 shoulder injuries and a bad back in 4 years there, and will have to live with theses injuries the rest of my life. And you try and call it greed. The hell with U.P.S and every- body who is not a teamster!!!"

GRANDMACDADDY wrote, saying: "You're a *!?#head! I'm a U.P.S. driver and a Teamster member. I work harder in a day than you do all month, so knock off the lazy employee routine. "

"Don't recall saying U.P.S. drivers were lazy... maybe discontented. Perhaps this person is feeling a little guilty for something unspoken." - ed.

Michel wrote, saying: "I think you are full of crap. The discontentment of the employees was due to the deplorable working conditions and UPS pettiness. I have worked for UPS for 17 years, from loader to driver, and I have seen this once good and concienscious company collapse under the weight of bad management and greed. After the strike, management began a termination and intimidation campaign to show the employees whose boss. Many employees have lost their jobs over minor incidences. FYI, when we returned from the strike, it become common knowledge that the division manager had many photos of picketers who were to be singled out for termination.

Yes, I agree the UPS strike was a mistake. Certainly Mr. Carey and his cohorts bear a huge chunk of the blame. But let's not lay this all at the feet of honest hard working men and women who just want to do their jobs and go home with the least amount of interference as possible. "

"Terminated for striking... as they should be. Be thankful you still have a job and stop whining." - ed.

Our3gang wrote, saying: "As a UPS worker i think it is very easy for you to make these claims that you have in your article here on the internet. Yes I agree that greed is a bad thing but i also know that unfortunate money makes this world go around. The cost of living in my state is so high because of the greed of others so it means that i need more than mimimum wage to support my 2 kids.

Whoever wrote this article has obviously never had to do without. I am a single mother and have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. I do not go and spend money frivoulously.

Another thing stated in the article is that we as teamsters are greedy for wanting alot of benefits and pensions. Well, the type of work we do is definitely NOT like sitting behind a desk. We all pay the price with our health. Why shouldnt we have excellent benefits?

As for the people that would love to make 11 dollars an hour...well, I hate to tell you but not everyone can do this kind of work. If the person who wrote this article had ever done this kind of work they wouldnt have ever written it. I wont bother to go into all of the medical problems that I have had or my co workers have had as a result of the job but lets just say that it is far more than any person would ever have just pointing and clicking a mouse at a computer. If you call wanting to be able to survive and make a decent living and be paid for giving our health to our job greed then go ahead.

But I would suggest that in the future that before you write something that you should get all the facts. For me it was about the full time jobs and protecting my pension from a greedy company that wanted to spend it any way that they wanted. I want to be able to survive when my body wont let me work anymore. So if you call that greed then go ahead...I think that instead of sitting at your computer and writing alot of babble that you need to go and get a job like ups and then write about how all drivers are greedy! "

This writer makes my point well about the "more syndrome." It is because of the greed of Teamsters and others like them that the cost of living is so high and it only continues to get higher. Do they honestly believe that pay raises are going to help their situation ... a situation where they are already one of the best paid non-skilled laborers? Wrong! Their demand for "more" only makes it more difficult for the less fortunate working people in America.

One distinctive of the "more syndrome" is that those who suffer from it the most are the least likely to recognize it. As the writer of the above message clearly shows, they think they are somehow different from the rest of American workers and their problems are somehow unique. As a result, rather than taking responsibility for their own situation, they hide behind the lies espoused by their socialist labor union. Suggested reading: The Financial Guide for the Single Parent by Larry Burkett." - ed.

Stangpride also wrote much like Our3gang above, saying: "For your information, I work for UPS and have been for over 4.5 years now. The fact that you could even STATE that the strike was about more pensions and more funding than what we deserve, ect, shows me just how ignorant you really are.

I am a part time employee and YES, I would like the full time position that UPS promised me in the WRITTEN contract that they have so thoughtfully neglected over the years. I wanted part time employment in the beginning. Now that I have been there for a few years, I would like to advance and UPS promises that everyone "from within" can be promoted to such a position. I have yet to be promoted to such a position. Those of you who want to work part time for however long and then leave, well that is your option. Myself on the other hand wants what should be coming to me and that is my career that is promised to me in the contract. I did not march that picket line for 2 1/2 weeks just for more money per hour. I was happy with what I made at that time. I marched for all the careers that were promised to all employees since UPS promotes from within. Promotion?? What the heck is that? I have yet to be offered anything except harassment and excuses for wanting a full time job.

I am a member of the union and I support its cause 100%. I dont pay union dues for nothing. If you are so willing to cite what you think are the reasons we marched, why dont you advertise what you're trying to say? I bet you will not though because you might just eat your words and be like, "Duhhhh" yourself. Colleges are accepting applications all over the US and around the world...maybe it's time you invested in a new career yourself because you obviously know "Jack" ...that is, if you can figure out how to fill out the applications."

See what I mean? The above writer, like many others, believe they are "owed" a career. When things don't work out for them like they'd like, rather than doing something constructive to improve their lot, they just complain they are being abused by the company that gives them a job.

This person should take some of their own advice ... learn how to complete a college entrance application and get a job they don't hate so much." - ed.

Yet another writes pretty much the same thing (do you see the similarities here?) James wrote, saying: "Why should'nt a part-timer want to be full-time? Why should'nt a part-timer want to make 50,000 -70,000 a year? Do you think that UPS would pay a driver or feeder that rate of pay if not for the union? Of course not. Do you think that UPSer's would have the medical benefits that they have if not for the union? No, they would not. And you left out the reason that most part-timer's average $11 an hour. Because they have be part-time(waiting for full-time)for more than 5 years! The wait for full-time in most hubs is at least 10 years.

If you call wanting to be able to buy your children nice clothes, piano lessons or, God forbid, a car when they turn 16, then call all of us greedy. But shame on you for writing quotes about greed and discontent while you, I'm sure, make 10 times more than any part-time UPSer's."

Sorry to disappoint you, but I like many thousands of others, work hard for a fraction of what UPSer's are paid and we too want to buy our children nice clothes, piano lessons, etc. Unlike Teamsters however, some of us would rather do something positive to accomplish that goal rather than whining about our situation. Suggested reading: How to Manage Your Money by Larry Burkett. " - ed.

Greg wrote, saying: "I have been a UPS union employee 25 years. I find your article written from a view of outsider looking in influenced by UPS management viewpoint. Yes there are nonchristian ideas and principles on the union side,but there were many just as worldly nonchristian views on the other side as well.

I have seen many principles used on hourly employes. Lies,backstabbing,under the table deals many things I dont consider to be Christian examples, all in the name of business.

I have only one question, why can't a union employee share in the profits this company gains? As I said earlier neither side can boast of being a shinning example of Jesus to a lost and dying world,it is a personal decision each individual must make. UPS nor teamsters are going into Heaven as a group.

I just don't see your point in not fully giving both sides weaknesses. Many of your points were wrong. Wages are far from the $70,000 range you gave. As for complaints from part time employees not gaining full time status, this was the idea given to each when they were hired. Many at my location have worked for six seven or even eight years still waiting for the opportunity to gain full time status. Is this wrong to want to better your families well being. I believe God desires for us to give to our famlies the best we can,as long as its done in honest up right manner.

There are many more issues that should have been presented ,but like in all this world offers we don't see the whole picture until its to late."

RLJ639 wrote, saying: "It's people like you who are a danger to society. You don't have the facts about the issues about that strike and you don't know what working inside UPS is like.

I'm an UPS employee of over thirty years and a Christian. It would be good for you to talk to some of those single mothers who have worked for the company for several years as a part time employee, working as many as sixty hours in some weeks and are still classified as part time, denying them full time benefits. Many of these individuals were promised full time jobs years ago.

Christ warned us about your kind. I compare your article to Blasphemy."

Blasphemy! Now the Teamsters are being raised to the level of a religion. - ed.

ROCKYSHM wrote, saying: "It's clear you know nothing about the union. You can read about it, but you don't live it. Don't blame the Union, we ask for a contract, it's the companies decision to agree to it. They can say No.

Do you really believe an employee wants to stand on the picket line? Doesn't the employee have the right to collectively bargain for his wages, or should we just allow the companies to decide what to pay us?

You are right, there is a lot of greed involved, but it is on the companies behalf. If an employee see his employer, like management, CEO's, and stockholders all getting rich, because of the labor produced by their employees, wouldn't it be fair to spread some of the money around to the people who've earned it?

To which, I responded: "Yes, they can say "No" and they should have the right to do so without coercion from the unions. And, likewise, employees can accept or reject the companies offer with the benefits or consequences thereof.

Yes, an employee should have the right to collectively bargain for his wages, and if the company refuses ... you can either accept what the company offers or you should find another job.

Take responsibility for your own life and stop hiding behind the socialist skirts of labor unions." - ed.

CONSTANTMOVE wrote, saying: "I think your web page is biased. It is easy to say that the work force is aply paid when you're making millions in Management stock and salary."

Weezee wrote, saying: "I think UPS paid you to write this hogwash against the teamsters employees of UPS. "

Yeah, right! - ed.

G175 wrote, saying: "Every once in a while I stumble across a web page that fills me with rage. Yours is right up their with the various white supremacist pages that occupy cyberspace.

Your beliefs are a threat to democracy. Would you rather have a theocracy that forces everyone to think like you do?

Christianity is responsible for the suffering and death of more people than any other religion or philosophy, from the Holocaust to the bombings of abortion clinics.

What outraged me the most was the article on the UPS strike. The article stated that greed was what drove the teamsters to strike. What about the greed of the management?

Real democracy can not exist until people give up on the false hopes and promises of religion. It is responsible for almost every war that was ever faught. Christians say they will not kill, yet they are willing to go to war to spread their propaganda of intolerance, fascism, and hate. ( And no, I do not hate Christians, I just disagree with their views. After all it is not your fault you were brainwashed from the day you were born)

What Christianity stands for:
Intolerance
fascism
Christian Superiority
war

What Socialist Anarchism stands for:
Freedom
tolerance
peace
equality
woman's rights
environmental protection
gay rights
end to poverty
freedom of expression
and yes freedom of religion (as long as it is not hateful)
PLEASE STOP THE HATE

Notice the qualifier for freedom of religion... "as long as..." Sort of makes the point of who is really being hateful. "You're free "as long as..." you agree with me." - ed.

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